I wonder...

[nolawitch58]

Have any of you changed your minds dramatically on an issue? I'm not talking about a one-time choice, like in deciding to have the fish instead of the chicken at a restaurant. I'm talking about a big societal issue with a pro and anti side. If so, I'd like to know the process by which this issue shifted in your mind. Tell me how adamant you were about the issue before you changed your stance, what caused you to reevaluate your previous stance, your current stance on the issue and how adamant you are about your current stance.

EDIT: Question also asked over at thequestionclub here.

Comments

No, sorry.

[saminz.livejournal.com]

Only private issues without any wider societal impact :-).
What are you changing your mind on, maybe? Will you let us know at all...?
What changes minds is usually prove, or another *very* good argument. But only intelligent minds can change, I guess ;-).

[nolawitch.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'll let y'all know. There is something percolating through my mind right now that I'm struggling with. As soon as I get my content project done, I'll give it a lot more thought.

[mortaine.livejournal.com]

Yes, I have.

I wasn't particularly adamant, so much as reactionary in my views on parenting. I used to believe that would-be parents should have to pass some sort of humanity test in order to have children. Then I learned about eugenics, sterilization of non-whites in the US, and listened to a broader argument on women's reproductive rights. I have since decided that, while there are still crappy mothers, having mothers who have the *choice* as to whether or not to reproduce is far better than deciding what a woman may and may not have done with her uterus. Mostly, my initial belief stemmed from decisions made about the world during my adolescence.

Similarly, I used to buy into the "they're born that way" argument relating to gays. My brother is gay, and has been gay his whole entire life. I believed the line that "it's how he was made, he can't help it." This was a belief my mother had instilled in me (BTW: my mother gladly accepts my brother, his identity, his partner, and is not close-minded about gayness.)

But then, in another discussion with some folks in my women's studies classes, I was asked why it was that someone could not *choose* to be gay? Did I think that people should not have the choice, the free will to choose their own lifestyle? I considered this and, even though it plays right into the religious right's fanatic arguments about those dangerous gay people, I decided that I would no longer believe that every gay person is "born that way." Instead, I have now decided that some gay people are, some choose to be gay, some have gayness thrust upon them (i.e., early childhood trauma shifts their sexuality). And it really doesn't matter how a person "becomes" gay; it changes nothing about them. Since I did not have any particular moral "weight" or judgement on the genesis of one's homosexuality (i.e., I already was accepting of gays anyway), this change in opinion did not have a major impact on my life.

I think there have been a few other instances of me changing my mind about something big, though I can't quite remember them right now. I do have blips and exceptions to my stronger moral stances that I don't consider to be a changed mind so much as an irrational reaction. For instance, I don't believe in capital punishment, but I'd like to cut the weenies off of all rapists and then hang them for their crimes. But I'm pretty open about my lack of objectivity, there, and would rather be put into jail for contempt of court than sit on a jury deciding a rape case.

[celticess.livejournal.com]

Probably a few... though more personalized things which are indivdual to everyone.

Things like does a higher power of some sort exist? I pondered that years ago in highschool while first trying out physics and other things. This was before my near death experience. It is also what lead me to agnosticism. Somethings can be explained by science, somethings can't be explained by science yet, and somethings are unlikely to be figured out by science. If we go on say the big bang theory. Well the original elements of the big bang had to come from somewhere even if it wasn't an "intellgent" or "organized" source. Even nothing in a sense has to come from somewhere. So I couldn't discount a higher powers existence nor prove it. Then I had my personal experiences with death. I do believe in an afterlife, I'm not sure I believe in a heirachy to it. For all I know it's simply a different dimension that remaining energy transforms/goes to. Some people say it's some sort of hulicination in the last hours of life brought on by a region of the brain which is known little about and doesn't seem to do much. However I think there is enough unexplainable or things that can't be brushed off because there is reasonable doubt... that more exists.


I changed my views on the death penalty and chemical castration of libidos of repeat sex offenders. I viewed an "eye for an eye" as wrong. What changed my view is the conditions prisoners live under where I am. They hardly are living the sparse life where they must live with the thoughts of what they have done. They also aren't necisarily punished a fitting time to a appropriate institution for their crimes. Prisons are brimming over. People non rehabilitated that did awful things are being released into the public. This is despite even jailers stating they are high risk to reoffend. I think if they are a serial whatever their crime needs to be dealt with in the strongest possible way. If they might be rehabilitated they need forced entry into a intense program to help them and good review practices to see if it's working. The ones that are good can be reintegrated but the bad apples shouldn't come out.

Part of my view change regarding crime issues are things like elements of my exhusbands family. Other reasons include things like my parents best friends had a friend(we didn't know them directly) that was a habitual drunk driver. They hit and killed someone... then whined about how they felt so bad and didn't mean it and how they felt hard done by due to people being harsh with them for drinking and driving... it's a no brainer... if you've had a few don't drive!

[sparkyr.livejournal.com]

I think that most of the really difficult "for" and "anti" issues become a split decision for most people who really openly **think** about them. Most people don't really think though, they simply react in the way that their lives to this point have conditioned them...
I used to be vociferously pro-this and anti-that, and as I've gotten to actually step back and think about them, I've managed to find compassion for people on all sides of the issues. Which doesn't mean I don't still take action to attempt to bring about what I think will bring the greatest good for the greatest number - but I don't "hate" those who may have a different opinion on the matter anymore.

Best wishes in resolving your quandry, NW.

Bush, need I say more?

[slamlander.livejournal.com]

I liked his dad and I'm pro-Reagan, still. This, in spite of the fact that I swore that I'd never vote for either a Preacher (Jackson) or a Spook (Bush Sr., Casper, etc.). Bush Sr., with his behavior, turned me around on part of that and he did try to carry forward the Reagan econ policies (You don't remember the 70% marginal rate, I do, I was paying it, Reagan saved us from it. But we can argue that later ;) ). The main thing is that he fought the radical right in the Republican Party.

Eight years of Clinton later, I was very glad to see Bush Jr. I thought 'even a dumb president is better than a part-time president'. Over time, Junior showed me how wrong that was. Note that his first term was rather unremarkable unti 9-11. It was then when he really showed his stuff (Basically, a headless chicken has more sense). Even then, it really wasn't until after he got re-elected that his radical right side started showing (Yeah, I know, you told me so :)

So this post was made. The thing is that Junior isn't even a competent crook. Those who accuse him of stupidity and padding his friend's pockets cannot have it both ways. The second accusation takes too much in the way of brains to ever be able to call him stupid. Personally, I think they were right the first time, he's stupid. That opportunists are lining their pockets is only a fault of his stupidity and not his awareness or connivance.

I am worried. If he serves a third term then the US is toast.

Re: Bush, need I say more?

[mortaine.livejournal.com]

Why do people even bring up "third term"? The US presidency ends after two-- no one may even *run* for a third.

If he serves a third term, it's the effect of the US being toast, and not the cause.

Re: Bush, need I say more?

[slamlander.livejournal.com]

That is exactly my point. It will mean that the Constitution has become meaningless, which means that his government will not be legitimate. If you don't think that it's a serious possibility then you are kidding yourself.

Re: Bush, need I say more?

[mortaine.livejournal.com]

Well,I thought that martial law would be declared just in time for the last election, and I was pleasantly surprised.

Guess I'll just keep doing my part to ensure free, safe elections in my district. If he ends up on the ballot, though, I may be pulling all the votes with his name checked on them for a hand count.....

Re: Bush, need I say more?

[bloodyviking.livejournal.com]

Those who accuse him of stupidity and padding his friend's pockets cannot have it both ways.
I disagree. This only requires being aware enough to know who his friends are, and to do as they ask. If he was being at all smart about it, there wouldn't be nearly so many accusations in the first place.

A couple of things

[spud31.livejournal.com]

Becoming an unwed mother certainly reversed my views on what should be taught in sex education. I'm all for kids being abstinant, but they need to be taught how babies are made (by teachers, not their dates!) and given the opportunity to have birth control.

Joining the UF board caused me to more subtly lose my homophobia. That was a wonderful thing, since my brother came out a year later and I didn't have such a horrible adjustment to make and I was able to be there for him.

Oh gods, you're not rethinking the children issue are you?

[thenewt.livejournal.com]

It would be the... *counts on fingers* fourth sign of the apocalypse.

Though of course I've always said you'd be a cool mother ;)

*Scurries away on his cute little newt legs*

Re: Oh gods, you're not rethinking the children issue are you?

[nolawitch.livejournal.com]

No, that's not it. That wouldn't be practical due to my age, my increasing dislike of children and my tubal ligation.

Thanks be to the unholy gods!!

[thenewt.livejournal.com]

I was kinda getting worried about Armageddon drawing near ;)

Re: Thanks be to the unholy gods!!

[krikkert.livejournal.com]

Yeah. Thank gods the fifth sign is you actually befriending a Norwegian. ;)

(The Apocalypse won't happen! YAY!)

Re: Thanks be to the unholy gods!!

[thenewt.livejournal.com]

That was the second sign...

(O.o)!!!

[thewrongcrowd.livejournal.com]

You're thinking about registering Republican??!!

Heh. We'll get this thread off track sooner or later. ;)

Tuba Legation??

[flat-lander.livejournal.com]

You're learning to play the tuba?!

guns

[law-witch.livejournal.com]

until I had to use one to save mine and my daughter's life.

[solitary4now.livejournal.com]

the war, drug usage, pro choice, marriage, Bush....I guess the longer you live the more things there are to change your mind about...

yes, once

[flat-lander.livejournal.com]

When a teenager, I found "faggotry" offensive(nasty and un-natural) Then a very good friend came out to me.. Poor Kyle, that took a lot of courage. I still don't get it, but I figure, "Whatever blows yer skirt up!" I've even been mistaken for a Gay Guy-- I _do_ carry a purse.

[blackbyrd2.livejournal.com]

'Dramatic' is not a word I'd use to describe any of my changes in position or belief, as it implies a sudden shift.

Most of my changes in belief are gradual, sometimes wavering back and forth a bit before I get enough data to push the position to one side or the other. Generally though, most of my shifts have been fairly inexorable.

Going from a religious christian background to alternative religions (including Wicca, briefly,) to a modified agnostic, and finally arriving at atheist has been a long painful process as I've given up one thing after another in the face of simple logic.

On the other hand, learning tolerance was a fairly easy process. (Yeah, I know, I don't sound tolerant sometimes. I'm still biased against stupidity.)

Shifting from Republican to (not Democrat, really, but somewhere off to the left,) has been probably the most rapid shift I've ever made. You might not believe it but I wasn't a very political animal 10 years ago. Civil rights, sure, but politics? Pff. When they're all crooks, what's the point? It took watching Reagan and Bush Sr screw up the economy in a way that I thought only a Dem could, and then seeing a Democrat fix the mess to push me in that direction, and then seeing what Dubya was bringing to the table scared me into an active political life.

At the same time, (literally,) I was making a move from radical environmentalist towards a more conservative point of view towards logging, mining, the economy and the like. I'd still be called a tree hugger by the neo-cons, but they can't see anything but black and white anyways.

it just happens

[ozanbaba.livejournal.com]

if i think of how my mind works
i think i will loose it

Re: it just happens

[ozanbaba.livejournal.com]

and thing in the crow the movie is true
(about a crow carries dead man's soul to other world)